MINUTES OF AN ORDINARY MEETING OF THE ASSOCIATION OF NORTH-WESTERN CAR CLUBS HELD AT THE HOLIDAY INN, RUNCORN ON TUESDAY 12th AUGUST 2003
The Chairman, Bob Milloy, welcomed delegates to the meeting.
19 member clubs were represented by 24 delegates as follows:
Bolton-le-Moors CC (Guy Wickham), British Motorsport Marshals Club (Mike Farnworth), Bury AC (Eve Fisher), Chester MC (Martin Pratt), Civil Service Motoring Association (Steve Johnson), Ecurie Royal Oak MC (Steve Bayley, Kay Skellern, Kevin Skellern), Garstang & Preston MC (Steve Kenyon), High Moor MC (Matt Dickson, Neil Moreton), Kirkby Lonsdale MC (Bob Milloy), Knutsford & DMC (Nigel Banks), Lancashire & Cheshire CC (Martin Nield), Liverpool MC (John Harden, Ron Hunt), Longton & DMC (Peter Riley), Motor Sport NW (Ann McCormack, Richard Pearl, Dave Read, Mark Wilkinson), North Wales CC (Dave Thomas), Potteries & Newcastle MC (Sue Sanders-Peppit), Stockport MC (Mark Wilkinson), Wallasey (Aidan Mangan, Richard Pearl), Warrington & DMC (Ann McCormack, Dave Read).
Officials present were: Bob Milloy (Chairman), Kay Skellern (General Secretary), Eric Cowcill (Treasurer), Dave Thomas (Championships Secretary), Martin Pratt (CTRLO/FLO) & Mike Farnworth (Training Officer).
Apologies for absence were recorded from Katy Mashiter (Press Officer, KLMC & Morecambe CC), Mike Ashcroft (Aintree Liaison), Tom Dooley (BRSCC North-West), Jim Spencer (British Radio Car Association), John Francis (Dayz of Funder MC), Clive Baty (Ilkley & DMC), David Bailey (Lancashire & Cheshire CC), Jim Bebby (Liverpool MC), Martin Blackburn (Manx Motor Sport Marshals Association), Mike Cook (Quinton MC), Richard Duddell (Westfield Sports CC)..
Correction of error in the last minutes … reference the requirement for National A Timekeepers at events using the “traffic light” system - this should have stated that the requirement was for events using 1/10th of a second timing, not for all events using “traffic lights”.
The minutes of the previous meeting which had been circulated by post and e-mail were accepted on a proposal by Ron Hunt (Liverpool), seconded by Nigel Banks (Knutsford).
Fire tenders – Steve Johnson has investigated Kärcher equipment but it will require pressure supply. Mike Farnworth will be attending an exhibition in Birmingham on such matters and will be looking at possibility of a pressurized portable trolley.
Club lateness in Year Book – the MSA had stated that the request for 2004 information would be circulated earlier, instead the recently issued forms indicate a later return date of 31 August 2003 for submission. All clubs should note that if application is not submitted in time then they will not be included in either the MSA main directory nor in the list of ANWCC member clubs.
Steve Johnson‘s proposal for marshalling qualifications to be considered for rally licencing has not progressed as there has not been a Regional Committee meeting, next one being in September.
Alexander Forbes Insurance has now been reinstated for road cover at an increased price. AF will be handing back the increase to the Motorsport Safety Fund. It should be noted that the premiums differ between Road Rallies and Navigation Rallies.
Mike Broad’s team proposals had now been published as a summary document only. Sue Sanders-Peppit reported that the Rallies Committee were not fully supportive of the proposals affecting events below the BRC status, and some hefty questions were awaiting answers. The Committee agreed on the “progression ladder” possibility.
Tabards have now been distributed to all MSA registered marshals who applied before the end of 2002.
Some details had been received on the “Motorsport Awareness for Landowners and Farmers” event promoted by the AEMC (Association of Eastern Motor Clubs), Martin Pratt to investigate the feasibility of a similar event being held in the North-West. Discussions over suitable venue included an agricultural college at Preston and Oulton Park. A suitable venue to include many aspects of motor sport would be required. Insurance implications to be investigated.
Inter-Association Autotest – held on 21 June at Rufforth. Two ANWCC teams had competed on what proved to be a fraught day with the team having to repair cars. Steve Johnson was thanked for his role as Team Captain.
Child Protection Policy, drawn up by Jim Spencer (BRCA), no information received, to be followed up.
Ethnic group participation – it was noted that Naveed Iqbal had assisted with Stage Arrival at the recent Promenade Stages Rally.
MSA COUNCIL NEWS
Eric Cowcill reported on a short meeting held 5 June, but with a lot of content.
Colin Hilton and Allan Dean-Lewis had realized from attending the Regional meetings that the prime concern of the rank and file members is the perception of the MSA’s promotion of higher echelon events. CH and ADL are to present a stronger club image at regional meetings and to attend as many as possible.
Due to the senior MSA personnel being relatively new a further link with the FIA for a seat on the World Council was thought unlikely in immediate future.
Racing Championships for 2003 had been grouped into three levels (similar to the proposals for future rallying) and this had culled “dead” championships, and was seen to have improved the interest.
Many new rules had been ratified for introduction with effect from 1 January 2004, and these have been published in ”Motorsports Now!” recently issued. These included Auto Solo events (similar to Production Car Autotests), changes to Historic Rally classes, maximum lateness regulations reinstated, signage for radio points on rallies, spaceframe specials on rallies, tyre mousse and tyre-warmers prohibited, “Give Way” ruling to be “Stop” on night events but “Give Way” on daylight events, DSO to be appointed by Associations and also judge noise levels and be reimbursed by the organizing club (note that expenses have not been agreed by the Rallies Committee, also guidelines to be sought regarding the process of appointment), Regional Associations to be advised of all rallies within their area, maximum speed limit of 20mph on daylight road sections unless otherwise agreed with RLO, Enduro Rally regulations approved for such events, Off-Road drivers on events traversing public highways must hold driving licences, Tyro Trials to permit 13-year-olds, Off-Road Challenge events to include off-road schools and competitors.
It was noted that Motorsport has been acknowledged as a sport in Northern Ireland and is therefore eligible for grants. This was vied as good promotion for the support, and we await finding if the same status can be obtained in mainland UK.
MSA REGIONAL COMMITTEE
No meeting held since our last meeting, the next being scheduled for September 2003.
MSA RALLIES COMMITTEE
The last meeting had been held on 17 July.
Service Area best practices are to be included in the Club Manual.
Concern expressed over who trains trainers. Nothing had been received from the MSA and no assessments made. A “Think Tank” was to meet on 29 September to discuss thoughts on putting together an assessment and training programme for trainers, this to include best practice and upgrading modules, and be publicized.
It was noted that WRC cars do not comply with Section E regarding fuel lines in the passenger compartment. The regulation is to be reworded to included FIA specification.
From the Myerscough Training Day best practices have been highlighted – how organizers should treat marshals by supplying them with timetable, map, entry list, stage furniture and assist with signing-on and recruitment, also information about social events. Guidelines to be issued.
Thoughts expressed on publishing the “Blue Book” on the web. There are impracticalities in doing this but it was being reviewed.
Rally Safety Study Group – it is stated that very few National B events have taken the best practice guidelines on board, and are running with different safety criteria.
Availability of “secure” areas on the MSA website for, e.g. Stewards to check competitors’ licences in the case of a competitor forgetting to bring it with him to signing-on. The Australian website was highlighted as being an excellent example with access available to certain officials.
The next Rallies Committee meeting is scheduled for February 2004.
MSA SPEED COMMITTEE
Peter Riley reported that he had not received minutes of the last meeting held in February, and not been informed of the cancellation of the meeting scheduled for July 2003.
Martin Nield commented that some of the new regulations, e.g. ban brake bias, were “crackers” and asked how had they been passed. It was stated that the committee had approved such proposed changes.
It was stated that noise testing on Sprint meetings appears to be satisfactory and within limits. However, motor-cycles are not being checked and this could well cause the disappearance of certain venues, e.g. Oakington.
The next meeting is scheduled for 18 September.
MSA TIMING ADVISORY PANEL
Eric Cowcill reported on the meeting held on 3 April.
It was reported that there is diversity amongst “traffic light” systems and this was being looked into. The Rallies Committee would lay down the minimum criteria.
There have been problems with transponders due to incompatability between systems. The Dutch supplier had changed the decoding and fouled things up, problems are ongoing and the European Commission has intervened.
Eric has written an article for “Motorsports Now!” regarding the problems.
Richard Pearl (Wallasey) question the requirement for National A timekeepers at events using the “traffic light” system. It was stated that, contrary to our previous minutes, this should have stated that the requirement was for events using 1/10th of a second timing.
Clubs with greater than 100 members had requested a system of coloured number backgrounds to indicate different classes. This was primarily at the request of Caterham Clubsport. It was stated that no event would permit the use of the same number on different backgrounds competing directly against each other.
Message from Allan Dean-Lewis thanking us for the warm welcome at the May meeting, and also for the welcome to Ben Cussons of the MSC. At the MSA Ian Davis has taken over the roles undertaken by Tony Newsum, who has retired.
Application for membership from Three Castles Motor Club, based in London but the organizers of the Three Castles Classic Trial held in June in North Wales. The club had previously applied to join the Welsh Association but had not been accepted following grumbles about their organizing an event in the principality. The club has since become affiliated to the MSA and the event is planned again for 2004. Proposed by Martin Pratt, seconded by Dave Thomas, the application was accepted.
Various invitations to events have been received and accepted.
Kay Skellern reported that the MSA registration form had been received for completion and return in respect of details for the 2004 MSA Year Book. List of member clubs and contact details for the Association to be send to the MSA by end August.
Application forms for forestry allocations for the year 2004/2005 received, copies available for any club wishing to apply for forestry usage.
Cheque has been received from the MSA as reimubursement of the funding made by the Association for the Training Day at Myerscough.
Invoices in respect of ANWCC subscriptions for 2004 had recently been posted and about half of the member clubs had paid. A draw was held for three clubs to have their subscriptions refunded, or credited against event registration fees, with the successful clubs being Hagley & DLCC, Potteries & Newcastle MC and Quinton MC. Seven other clubs had been drawn out of the hat but were ineligible as they had not paid their subscription
Problem has arisen in that Potteries & Newcastle MC have issued regulations for their Scorpion Rally (Road & Historic event) for 6/7 September having previously declared the date as 13/14 (as published in ANWCC and MSA publications). Clitheroe & DMC are running their Hall Trophy Rally on 6/7 September, the event also included in our Road & Historic Rallies. In view of this date clash, the P&N event will be dropped from our championships, and the organizers requested to ensure that all entrants are aware of this fact.
An offer has been received from “Weathertec” for the provision of some goodies for marshals in exchange for publicity within our Association.
Generally, events are running well with results coming in quickly and the championships being updated regularly for publication on the web. Our first Champions of 2003 had been declared at the finish of the C&A Trial on the previous weekend, Champion Trials driver being Jeff Buchanan of North Wales CC, whilst Stephen McEnhill of Caernarvonshire & Anglesey MC is the Novice Trials Champion.
www.anwcc.org has now amassed over 31,000 hits since launch in February 2002, and was now averaging over 100 hits per day. The site was being updated almost daily as championship charts were updated.
The registration form for clubs to update their contact details and submit events for 2004 had been circulated in July with about half having been returned.
A provisional list of championship events for 2004 was distributed around the meeting, this is being added to and the website Calendar updated. There were several date clashes appearing and these would require sorting before finalizing the championships.
No changes to the existing championship regulations had been suggested or were planned.
The “Formula 1000 Rally Challenge” put forward at the May meeting had gained a tremendous support via the website and rally forums, as well as publicity in “Motorsport News” and some local media (e.g. “Shropshire Star”). The number of enquiries suggested that we would be looking at about 25 to 30 cars per event and there have been several rethinks on the project. It is thought feasible, and desirable, to form the Formula 1000 Rally Club along the lines of the Peugeot Rally Club for competitors, the majority of whom appear to be from outside our “area”. Tristan Dodd of PEC Tyres was scheduled to meet a potential sponsor on 20 August to discus finance and awards, whilst Steve Moore of Wigan had suggested on the web rally forum that people may like to contribute to a fund to encourage newcomers to the sport through the Formula 1000 series – this has already secured pledges of about £600 from supporters. Further news will be published on www.anwcc.org.
The prize draw for ‘Marshal of the month’ for May, June and July was picked by the Chairman - these being Matt Dickson (High Moor MC), Tony Murphy (Liverpool MC) and Kevin Barnes (part of the CSMA Marshalling Group).
There has been no further information or guideline regarding the proposed Alexander Forbes Marshal of the Year award to be presented at the annual night of Champions organized by the MSA. Suggestions on how we nominate a suitable marshal are requested.
RTV Trial – Lancashire & Cheshire Rover OC event planned for 31 August … there had been problems with the planned venue, and no further information has been forthcoming.
Production Car Trial – being run on 14th September, organised by the Owen MC. If a team is raised then we will enter.
Stage Rally – to be held at Swinderby on 18th October and limited to two-wheel-drive non-turbo cars. Regulations have now been received and volunteers sought. It was suggested that a team of “Formula 1000” cars be entered. The scoring system is 50 points for a class win, 49 for second, etc. with the final score being the aggregate of the three competing cars.
Road Rally – being organised in the East Midlands region, no further information received.
Autocross – run near Chepstow on 9th August. No Autocross interest within ANWCC.
FORESTRY LIAISON OFFICER
Application forms for Forest usage for the year April 2004 to March 2005 are now available.
AINTREE LIAISON OFFICER
Mike Ashcroft had tendered his apologies for non-attendance and John Harden reported that it was business as usual with dates confirmed for 2004. However, it is not secure, the Managing Director quoting that “there is no long-term future for motorsport at Aintree”, the priority being to promote the golf course. This is despite the tremendous motorsport history at the venue.
OTHER VENUE LIAISON
Rallies at Weeton appear to be going ahead as planned. Blackpool South Shore MSC ran their Weeton Stages earlier, and Clitheroe & DMC are running their event in September. Stockport MC are planning their event at Weeton in March 2004.
It was reported that Warcop Ranges near Penrith was back for rallies after several years absence, with Kirkby Lonsdale MC running the Pendragon Stages on 9 November 2004, coupled with another venue in the area.
Katy Mashiter was not present but the message is the same, if you want help in any matters regarding press relations, do not hesitate to get in touch.
Mike Farnworth stated that he is putting a budget together for future training sessions.
The “grandfather rights” for Rally Marshals grading had ended on 31 July 2003 so all new applications would be granted Grade 3 status only.
Planning for Myerscough on 24 January 2004 was well advanced, and would be coupled with another session at Aston College, York the following day.
There would be five BMMC Training Days at Oulton Park, with dates to be advised later.
Training sessions for Rallies, Sprints and Autotests were planned.
The offer to attend club nights still stood, eight clubs having been attended since the last ANWCC meeting, with one session having been cancelled. Attendance levels had varied from excellent down to four.
Mike Farnworth would assist Jim Jones (WAMC Training Officer) at the Rhyl session planned for March 2004, pre the Rally of Wales. The Rhyl venue was available free of charge, with an offer of posters displayed beforehand. Mike wish to record thanks to Paul Turner of North Wales Car Club for securing the venue and providing the contacts.
It was suggested that rally crews be invited to attend Fire Training sessions.
Reported that FE36 extinguishers were being put forward for homologation by the FIA, data having been submitted through the MSA by Mike Farnworth.
RALLY LIAISON OFFICER
Martin Pratt reported all things quite on his patch at this time of the year. Details had been submitted for Knutsford & DMC’s Cheshire Historic Rally scheduled for 13 March 2004.
Bob Milloy reported that the Devil’s Own Rally, held the previous weekend by Kirkby Lonsdale MC, had been made up entirely of Autotests and a regularity on private land, with no competitive sections on the public highway. This had been very well-received.
North Walian clubs had held three meetings to discuss problems of road rallying on map 116 and have come up with a series of proposals and recommendations to be taken to the WAMC Northern meeting for submission to the main WAMC meeting. Map 116 is in the ANWCC area so the proposals (see attached) will be put forward as a joint exercise between ANWCC and WAMC on behalf of the Map 116 Study Group.
Welsh Border CC have been forced to move the area of their Classic Lanes Road Rally and will be using part of Cheshire. Martin is fully aware of the route and the organizers are liaising with him.
Martin reported on an event held in the Derwent Valley by the Triumph Sports Six Club where all 62 cars left in convoy. The route instructions include such comments as “sounding your horn will be good for the event video”. The organizers are being taken to a tribunal, and Martin warned that if any club acted in this manner in his “patch” they could face similar consequences.
ANY OTHER BUSINESS
The Dayz of Funder MC Charity Track Day was scheduled for the following Friday (15 August) and volunteers were requested. There had been a good response for the day, with attendance promised for a MoD helicopter, BTCC cars, a Fairground, various displays, model boats, Steve Johnson’s Autotesters and the BBC Greater Manchester Radio (GMR) would also be in attendance.
DATE AND PLACE OF NEXT MEETING
The meeting closed at 1045 hours, representatives being thanked for their attendance.
... for the Ordinary Meeting of the Association of North-Western Car Clubs, which will be held at Holiday Inn Runcorn, on Tuesday 11th November 2003, commencing at 2000 hours.
Apologies for absence
Minutes of the last Ordinary Meeting
Any other business
Forestry / Facilities Liaison Officer
Aintree Liaison Officer
Other Venue Liaison
Date and place of next meeting
p.p. Kay Skellern
General Secretary - Association of North-Western Car Clubs
17 Johnson Close, Henshall Hall, Congleton, Cheshire, CW12 3TQ
Calendar of events for 2004 … this list includes all events notified by member clubs and indicates which have been nominated for ANWCC Championship status. Note that clashes have to be sorted between the relevant clubs, priority being given to anniversary dates and first application.
Proposals & Recommendations re Road Rallying on Map 116, as presented to WAMC Northern Centre.