MINUTES OF AN ORDINARY MEETING OF THE
ASSOCIATION OF NORTH-WESTERN CAR CLUBS
HELD AT THE HOLIDAY INN, RUNCORN
ON TUESDAY 14th MAY 2002
The Chairman, Bob Milloy, welcomed delegates to the meeting,
and also welcomed John Symes, Head of Risk Management at the MSA. It was
noted that two prominent Motor Sport people had recently died - Ray
Wiltshire, MSA Chairman-elect and Ian Bax, founder of the Triple-C Speed
22 member clubs were represented by 26 delegates as follows:
Blackrod MC (Martin Fox), Bolton-le-Moors CC (Guy Wickham), British
Motorsport Marshals Club (Mike Farnworth), British Radio Car Association
(Jim Spencer), Bury AC (Graham Bray, Eve Fisher), Civil Service Motoring
Association (Steve Johnson), Dayz of Funder MC (John Francis), Ecurie Royal
Oak MC (Nigel Bailey), Ilkley & DMC (Clive Baty), Kirkby Lonsdale MC (Bob
Milloy, Katy Mashiter), Lancashire & Cheshire CC (David Bailey), Liverpool
MC (Jim Bebby, Ron Hunt), Longton & DMC (Peter Riley), North Wales CC (Dave
Thomas), Potteries & Newcastle MC (Eric Cowcill, Sue Sanders), Quinton MC
(Mike Cook), Stockport MC (Bob Milloy), 2300 Club (Katy Mashiter), Vauxhall
MG (Dave Glavin, Stuart Heveran), Wallasey MC (Richard Pearl, Bill Turner),
Warrington & DMC (Dave Read), Wigan & DMC (Martin Fox).
Officials present were:
Bob Milloy (Chairman),
Eric Cowcill (Treasurer),
Dave Thomas (Championships Secretary),
Mike Ashcroft (Aintree Liaison Officer),
Katy Mashiter (Press Officer) &
Mike Farnworth (Training Officer).
Apologies for absence were recorded from
Kay Skellern (General Secretary),
Martin Pratt (CTRLO/FLO),
Tom Dooley (British Racing & Sports CC North-West), Martin Nield (Lancashire & Cheshire CC), John Harden (Liverpool
MC), Mike Yates (Slaithwaite MC), Kevin Witton (Wolverhampton & South Staffs
Minutes of the previous meeting had been circulated and were
accepted on a proposal by Katy Mashiter (Kirkby Lonsdale MC) and seconded by
Steve Johnson (CSMA), after the following amendments were noted:
1. Date of meeting should have read 12th February and not 13th.
2. The hire fee for Aintree was set at £3,500 + VAT and not £2,500 +
VAT, bookings are not to be made through Mike Ashcroft as advised.
The Rally Safety Committee report had resulted in the National
Rally Marshals Training Scheme. Steve Johnson expressed concern over
"grandfather rights", publicity, spread of venues and the requirement to
attend. More venues and training sessions were required. John Symes
outlined the reasoning behind the scheme, and the insurance requirements,
training certification was necessary. In response to the "grandfather
rights" query it was stated that you are never too old to learn, and that
the training requirement should not be seen as a bar to enjoying Motorsport.
There were opinions that the hobby was getting too much like work.
Registration on the scheme would entail all marshals receiving newsletters
and the opportunity for prizes and rewards. There is a problem in cascading
the information through clubs, clubs will receive a supply of posters, etc.,
and the involvement of four manufacturers should ensure publicity and
interest in the scheme. Peter Riley asked why the scheme was only for
rallies, the reply being that this is the first discipline to be addressed.
Steve Johnson highlighted the Duke of Edinburgh Awards Scheme which
encourages youth groups and colleges and that Motorsport is an eligible
qualification. The scheme was also to thank and encourage marshals.
MSA - JOHN SYMES
John Symes outlined his role within the MSA, acting as the link
between the Insurers and Motorsport in very difficult times.
Jim Spencer questioned the changes to the Child Protection Act which
makes organisers responsible for under 18-year-olds on events. No-one under
16 is to be placed in a dangerous position, with suitable tasks being found
for 12-16-year-olds in the paddock and such areas. Organisers and adults
must show common sense. This does apparently lead to conflict of getting
youngsters involved, against liability.
John Francis stated that he was having problems in getting his club
recognised by the MSA. Although the standard pack had been sent out by the
MSA, he felt that the MSA personnel should be more approachable. At the
present he did not have the required 25 members but this was soon rectified
as a number of attendees paid the subscription fee (£2) to join. As
Chairman of the Dayz of Funder Motor Club, the fastest-growing club in
Britain, John thanked the meeting.
Mike Ashcroft asked John Symes what he thought would be the biggest
threat to Motorsport in the next ten years. John gave a number of
possibilities - environmental (karts); noise levels (uphold existing
regulations, venue owners at fault); government proposals ref the 14-day
ruling for use of land (this could cause major problems); responsibility and
duty of care legislation; definition of what is a public place; recruitment
of volunteer officials - more options, less responsibility; age of
litigation; marshals responsibility (payments, insurance); car technology
(difficulty in scrutineering, performance); safety (racing easier than
rallying to control). In response to this Mike Ashcroft asked if we are
taking enough steps to address these issues to which John Symes response was
that things could be better.
MSA COUNCIL NEWS
Eric Cowcill reported that Michael Southcombe was carrying on as
Chairman following the death of Chairman-elect Ray Wiltshire. The Rally
Marshals Register may abolish the regional register of Timekeepers but
acknowledge Chief Timekeepers on events as licenced. The 14-day ruling on
land and planning consent had been well-worked on by the MSA although little
publicity had been given. Feedback was gained from all events held on one
weekend in March to ascertain the effects, there is a serious threat
according to Ian Davis of the MSA. The MSA request club members not to
lobby their MP, they will advise clubs when action is necessary. The ACU is
also involved in discussions.
John Symes stated that the "Blue Book" is to be reduced in size,
with regulations being reviewed!
MSA REGIONAL COMMITTEE
Bob Milloy reported on the Regional Committee meeting held on
13th March, where members were introduced to Kevin Paye, newly appointed
General Manager of the MSA. "The Rights of Way Act" was ongoing.
Inter-Association championship events were discussed, with dates set for
Rally, Trials, Allrounders and ATV events. The suggestion that the
Inter-Association Stage Rally be a single-venue event in 2003 had been
decided, with the venue being Swinderby in Lincolnshire. The 2002 event is
the Quinton Stages on 27th July. Other events are the Autotest at Knutsford
on 27th July, the RTV Trial on 28th September at Ludlow, the PCT at
Shipton-on-Stow in the Midlands on 1st September, the Autocross at Chepstow
on 28th and 29th September and the Road Rally on 16th November at Jedburgh.
MSA RALLIES COMMITTEE
Sue Sanders reported that the next meeting was the following day.
There is concern over the BARS training days, happening in a fair and
equitable fashion, although schools are commercially not requiring the
business of new licence seekers. Copies of the examination papers had been
reviewed and were sound, although the system was less structured that
perhaps intended. 135 people had been through the school with only about
10% take-up for licences.
Despite promises in the minutes of the previous Rallies Committee
Meeting that publicity would be sent to clubs regarding the K31(a)
"exclusion for missing a control" debate nothing had been sent out. The
debate was continuing and would be on the agenda for the following day.
MSA SPEED COMMITTEE
Peter Riley had not been able to attend the last meeting on 26th
March but reported that silencing was rearing it's ugly head again, although
no changes to existing regulations were pending. There was nothing further
to report regarding young drivers. Proposed changes in license upgrading
and additional grade of National A Super License, with the number of
signatures required for upgrading changing.
Application for membership received from Matlock Motor Club was
proposed by Dave Thomas, seconded by Bob Milloy and accepted. Newtown &
District AC were showing an interest in joining although no official
application had been received to date.
The Association had been requested to support a proposal of Alan
Bibby of Wigan & DMC to the MSA Rallies Committee and formal proposal had
been submitted to the MSA.
Details of the Marshals Training Day to be held, with our local
venue being Chester on 25th June.
Plea from Ann McCormack of Warrington & DMC for marshals for the
forthcoming Enville Stages.
Promotional literature from Phoenix Ambulance, based in Chesterfield
(080800 112999) who will do event medical cover.
The Secretary had sent apologies for absence, nothing to report
other than covered elsewhere in these minutes.
Eric Cowcill reported that accounts were stable. TSOC had now
paid their subscription, this being the last of the renewals with no lapsed
memberships. Subscription to the North-West Federation for Sport,
Recreation & Conservation had been paid.
Dave Thomas reported that the Championships were looking healthy
with the number of registrations on 334 and about 100 events planned for the
year. Results for events were being sent without any problem and the
championship charts and event results were being displayed on www.anwcc.org
which was receiving a lot of hits, having exceeded 1,000 since launch in
FORESTRY LIAISON OFFICER
Martin Pratt had submitted apologies for absence, with nothing
to report. It was noted that the Forestry charges for 1st April 2002 to
31st March 2003 had been set at £392 primary use and £289 for second usage,
a small increase over the 2001/2 rates.
AINTREE LIAISON OFFICER
Mike Ashcroft reported that track inspections had been carried
out with some repairs required. Meeting had been held between Liverpool MC,
Aintree Circuit Club and the regional officer of the Sports Council. ACC
would not contribute to costs of about £7k, but offered 1/3rd. John Harden,
Chairman of LMC and Clerk-of-the-Course on Sprints, had obtained alternative
contractors and the track licence had been issued. The first event had been
held with no problems reported. The provisional calendar for 2003 would be
based on 2002, Liverpool MC were still looking to run a Stage Rally in
October. Jaguar had held a cavalcade on 1st April and Le Jog wished to
visit the venue in December 2002. Confirmation of funding for a feasibility
study was awaited, possible in July 2002. No application had been made to
the MSA Club Development Fund due to there being no guarantee of tenure.
OTHER VENUE LIAISON
Weeton events were ongoing.
Katy Mashiter reported that advertisements in NeWs, and
on the website, were due for renewal and she would contact the advertisers.
Other advertisers are welcome.
Mike Farnworth reported that a Rally Training Day was scheduled
for Myerscough College, Preston on 25th and 26th January 2003 with
accommodation available at little cost. The venue offered excellent
facilities and funding from grants. Leaflets have already been printed and
are being distributed.
Other training programmes are gathering pace - Race, Sprints,
Hillclimbs. Looking at funding with Allan Dean-Lewis of the MSA, and
finishing rally training videos. BTCC drivers now helping out and
recognising marshals. Permanent stand at Oulton Park has brought in 40 new
John Francis reported that a piece on marshalling different types of
disciplines was to go in "The Marshall" and BMMC newsletters.
RALLY LIAISON OFFICER
ANY OTHER BUSINESS
Bill Turner asked why was "Wheels" not on the website, to
which the reply is that it is!
Steve Johnson enquired about the Inter-Association Autotest and
authorization was given for two teams to be entered and supported.
Sue Sanders stated that Jim Jones of C&AMC had asked for a dates
meeting between the Welsh and North-Western Associations. It was felt that
dates meetings have not been fruitful in the past, clubs are asked to submit
their dates for the August meeting but there are inevitably changes due to
circumstances beyond our control.
Bob Milloy commented on the excellent book "The First Sixty Years
of the Lancashire & Cheshire Car Club" written by Eric Cheetham.
John Francis thanked all those who had contributed to last year's
Track Day and also his participation in the London Marathon, raising about
DATE AND PLACE OF NEXT MEETING
This concluded the business of the meeting at 2245 hours and
delegates were thanked for their attendance, also thanks to John Symes for
The next meeting of the Association of North-Western Car Clubs will
be held in the Holiday Inn, Runcorn on Tuesday 13th August 2002.
Future meetings are scheduled for 12th November 2002 and 11th
February 2003 (including AGM).
... for the Ordinary Meeting of the Association of North-Western
Car Clubs, which will be held at Holiday Inn Runcorn, on Tuesday 13th August,
commencing at 2000 hours.
The meeting will be attended by Allan Dean-Lewis MBE, Training &
Development Executive at the MSA and President of the ANWCC. Details of any
questions or topics to be dealt with should be submitted in advance to the
General Secretary, to enable the necessary research.
Apologies for absence
Minutes of the last Ordinary Meeting
MSA matters, including Allan Dean-Lewis' presentation
Any other business
Forestry / Facilities Liaison Officer
Aintree Liaison Officer
Other Venue Liaison
Date and place of next meeting
p.p. Kay Skellern
General Secretary - Association of North-Western Car Clubs
17 Johnson Close, Henshall Hall, Congleton, Cheshire, CW12 3TQ